Arms race

[pjthompson]

Random quote of the day:


"The principal foundations that all states have, new ones as well as old or mixed, are good laws and good arms….There cannot be good laws where there are not good arms, and where there are good arms there must be good laws."

—Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince
(tr. Harry C. Mansfield)


ETA: I'm closing this to comments. Please argue gun control on your own blogs.













Disclaimer: The views expressed in this random quote of the day do not necessarily reflect the views of the poster, her immediate family, Siegfried and Roy, Leonard Maltin, or the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. They do, however, sometimes reflect the views of the Cottingley Fairies.

Comments

[sollersuk.livejournal.com]

That is so Machiavelli, cynical to the nth degree. If he means that laws have to be enforced, otherwise the whole rule of law thing goes into the gutter, I can go with it; if not... hmmm.

[mount-oregano.livejournal.com]

By good arms he meant a military force capable of protecting the state from being attacked and overrun by another state, which was a constant problem in the Renaissance. The only good military force, he said, was a home-grown one made up of citizens defending their homeland, and they would only do that well if the laws were good enough to inspire them to fight to protect their homeland. They would not back their ruler if they hated him or held him in contempt -- if the ruler had made bad laws.

I don't think Michiavelli was as cynical as people think. He wrote "The Prince" to try to explain how to govern without the needless bloodshed and cruelty he saw so much of.

[pjthompson]

What you said. :-)

[mount-oregano.livejournal.com]

Amazing arms, by the way.

[pjthompson]

Arms make the man...

[geniusofevil.livejournal.com]

what happens when you say farewell to arms?

[pjthompson]

You become Tibet.

[geniusofevil.livejournal.com]

Costa Rica is warmer and it has crocodiles

[pjthompson]

Costa Rica is also not in a geopolitically jeopardized position. Great for vacations, but there isn't much there that people would be willing to conquer and subjugate for. That's why Spain and others didn't pay much mind when it went its own way, why nobody's made a land grab--once they repulsed the American attempt to get themselves a banana republic.

I think peace and disarmament are clearly the rational choice, but I don't think most people are rational or fond of doing what's for the higher good. I think the reptilian center of the brain makes us a violent, grabby species, and I don't think that's something people can be educated out of. It's instinctual. I'm not a Machiavellian, but it's important to protect ourselves.

That includes protecting ourselves from our own governments; hence the other part of the equation in the quote: good laws. Vigilance is not just an arms race, it's not just who's more pumped up than the other guy. It's about watching very closely what those in charge do, staying alert, and taking to the streets to check their actions when they get violent and grabby.

[geniusofevil.livejournal.com]

I don't know, CR is between Nicaragua and Panama/Columbia. I think you could call that geopolitically jepoardized.

Nicaragua, especially could have looked south for invasions. Contras used CR as a base for their attacks on Nicaragua, so there was plenty of reason to attack them.

Given the US's history with guns, I'm always a little surprised that people fight so hard to keep them.

[handworn.livejournal.com]

Given the US's history with guns, I'm always a little surprised that people fight so hard to keep them.

Why?

[geniusofevil.livejournal.com]

Because they cause more pain than they prevent.

[handworn.livejournal.com]

That's impossible to know. How does one count up pain that exists, much less pain whose amount would exist with some other situation? There's always going to be a populist pressure to elevate the known and discount the unknown, but there's no particular wisdom in doing so. In any case, I bet the people in the Warsaw Uprising would not have agreed with you.

[geniusofevil.livejournal.com]

If you want to argue about gun control and culture in the United States with me then maybe you want to pick your examples from situations that have happened in country.

As a society we are far too attached to something that's biggest affect on our daily lives is to endanger it.

And we generally tend to be very reactionary when trying to discuss it. Not a good combo.

Most people in the US don't hunt for their staple foods, they live in peaceful areas under police protection and aren't under realistic threat of invasion from footsoldiers of another country.

We have guns for protection and for recreation. It's the type of guns and this idead of protection that I have the biggest problem with.