Is voice more important than worldbuilding?

[pjthompson]

I know they're both important, and I would dearly love to open this up to a larger forum and hear what others think on this subject. Or perhaps someone with a larger audience might like to take up the question on their own blog?

ETA: Yes, this is mostly a rhetorical question for the purposes of discussion. As I said, both are important.

In my current state of mood, and having read far too many writing blogs for my own good, I'm thinking that voice ultimately trumps worldbuilding.

If book A has breathtaking ideas but writer A can't write h/er way out of a paper shroud, will a tree fall in the forest and still make a sound?

No wait, I said that wrong. How about this: if the worldbuilding is chock full of amazing ideas but the execution is poor, it seems to me the book will probably not sell or find an agent.

But I could be wrong. It has happened before. I'm sure you could come up with a few names as exemplars of good ideas/bad writing who have managed to get published and flourish, but I have to think they are exceptions. Or are they?

Perhaps this is a better example: If writer B, for instance, has good worldbuilding, and is a solid writer, but doesn't have that spark of voice, that fresh way of telling the story, I'm not sure they can break through. Whereas writer C may have so-so worldbuilding, but a fresh and original voice, and gets a 3-book deal.

Or can they? Which is more important--voice or worldbuilding?

Comments

[sboydtaylor.livejournal.com]

You need some basic level of skill at writing or you will never be able to sell. But you don't have to be Michael Chabon either.

As for voice, there are plenty of books out there in the typical "invisible" voice. Successful ones, too.

(There is a whole separate argument if any voice can truly be invisible.)

After a certain point of writing skill, there is no answer. You can sell a strong-voiced piece with little world building. You can sell an invisibly-voiced piece with strong world building.

To me, a unique and strong voice is a potent addition to any piece. I find "invisible" narrators boring a lot of the time.

But to others any variation from the rules of grammar or the "invisible" voice kicks them out.

It's all a matter of taste, really. What are your tastes at the moment? Go with those.

[pjthompson]

I'm all about the voice at the moment. The story has to have a compelling voice or it loses me, even if the worldbuilding is fabulous.

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

I like to think of the quiet voice that doesn't call attention to itself as transparent, rather than invisible. Readers will it's there, but forget about it, unless a speck on the window or a crack in a pane calls it to their attention.

Like window glass, the transparent voice, then, is the basic voice, and can feel boring if your preference is for stained glass.

The stained glass voice, otoh, can be beautiful in the hands of a master, or garish in the hands of someone with insufficient skills to execute their story voice flawlessly.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

So much depends on the readership. Perrty Pratchett is, I think, proof that both are important. Bujold, too.

I dunno...I think voice gets me ahead of world building, but I do think that 'voice' for me means a good dose of humor. I've tried to read books that are touted for their worldbuilding, and the prose was not awful, just humor less, and I lost interest.

[pjthompson]

I'm kind of in the same frame. I will overlook so-so worldbuilding as long as the voice is compelling--but not generally the other way around.

[wolfette]

I'd say voice. There are exceptions, but generally a good story-teller can make so-so world-building riveting.

[pjthompson]

That's what I'm thinking. I can think of numerous examples where the so-so becomes extraordinary thanks to a wonderful voice. Not as many in the opposite direction, but maybe I have blinders on at the moment.

[handyhunter.livejournal.com]

Here via sartorias.

I'm sure you could come up with a few names as exemplars of good ideas/bad writing who have managed to get published and flourish,

Sure. Stephenie Meyer. Is she an exception? I hope so.

I'd probably prefer a more compelling character/voice with not outstanding world-building than great world-building and poorly developed characters. Having great characters and world-building (and plot) would be fantastic.

[pjthompson]

Having great characters and world-building (and plot) would be fantastic.

That would be the ultimate!

[magicnoire.livejournal.com]

Voice trumps because these days, it's often voice that'll hook a reader and keep them reading to discover the worldbuilding and ideas.

[pjthompson]

This is how I'm seeing things. There are numerous writers I'll read just because their voice is compelling, even if the story they're telling isn't as original as That Person Over There. But the opposite? Even if someone has marvelous ideas but is a bad writer, I probably won't finish the book. I certainly won't read more.

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

It's definitely voice for me. No matter how stunning the concept, if I don't like the voice I will put the book down, usually for good.

[pjthompson]

For me, too.

[jamesenge.livejournal.com]

I'm here by way of sartorias, too.

This is an interesting question, which gave rise, as I considered it, to the following non-answer:

For me, story trumps nearly everything. If someone has a tale to tell and tells it with a certain efficiency, I can forgive a lot of other stuff.

"Voice" is one of those words that means different things to different people. In my usage, a work of any length ought to have more than one voice, or things will start to feel claustrophobic.

A world that is obviously off-the-shelf or off-the-rack is a serious demerit in any work of sf/f. Elfland can never be a suburb of Poughkeepsie. But a story that doesn't evoke wonder can still be a good story.

Hope this isn't too incoherent.

[pjthompson]

Not at all incoherent, and all good points. That's what makes this a horse race. As Sam pointed out in the first comment, it's all a matter of taste and everybody has a different set of things that make reading worth the journey for them.

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

I think that voice, character, and world-building act together to support the story/plot: if any one of them is weak, the story is going to suffer, and if two are weak, it's going to be hard to get the story to stand, but if any of them is completely missing, the story just doesn't work at all.

[pjthompson]

I agree, that's as it should be, certainly. But I've seen plenty of examples where one or the other of those is weak, but the story still gets published and the authors flourish.

[kmkibble75.livejournal.com]

I definitely lean more toward voice than the worldbuilding. If I have to, I can arrange the world on my own... but I can't make their writing better.

[pjthompson]

Right. You might overlook, frex, that someone has both birds and saurians in their world if they tell a good tale. :-/

[norilana.livejournal.com]

For me, voice is paramount. In its best form, worldbuilding is just an organic outgrowth of the voice, basically a fitting frame for the human experience being portrayed by the voice. A greatly formed world without a vividly "alive" personality (the voice) to engage me on an emotional level just doesn't work for me.

[pjthompson]

Yes! That's a great way to put it. Voice pulls the worldbuilding out of the ether, not the other way around.

[darkspires.livejournal.com]

To me, Voice is about personal style and that includes characterisation and plot. The worldbuilding, while important, is more in the nature of fluff. A reader will identify with a character and their predicament but will not mind particularly if this story happens in Middle Earth or Mars.

Yes, I have seen a very few published books that have been hyped to sell. I tried, several times to read one of these highly flaunted efforts and ended up waking some time later with a very stiff neck.

A leaf on an upper branch of the third tree from the left at the edge of a wood that is seen over a distance of three fields by someone looking out of a third floor turret window of a castle in the kingdom of lesser drivel is going to be my absolute choice for bedtime reading because I am an insomniac and need a deep dose of boring to make my mind shut down. Challenges someone to write a longer run-on sentence of purely setting. Grins.

[pjthompson]

lol--oh, I can write some run on sentences, but I think you deserve a gold medal for that one. :-) Hope you're getting enough sleep!

[quiller77.livejournal.com]

I haven't read through all the comments but I'm definitely voting for voice, especially if it's a first-person narrative, but for any POV, really. World-building needs to be solid but if the writing doesn't hold me, if the voice doesn't tickle my ear, then I get impatient. And more and more I'm finding that I'm willing to put down a story and not find out how it ends if the writing is letting me down or if the character doesn't connect.

[pjthompson]

Voice seems to be getting the most votes--in this forum, anyway.

And more and more I'm finding that I'm willing to put down a story and not find out how it ends if the writing is letting me down or if the character doesn't connect.

And yes, I'm there with you. There are too many books I want to read and my TBR is too big for me to waste time on a book that is letting me down or not connecting. I give it a good shot, sometimes a quarter or half a book, but I won't slog through to the end.

[handworn.livejournal.com]

My vote is for voice. That's what makes you decide, from moment to moment, not to stop reading. (Many of these repeated decisions are not conscious ones, of course.) The ideas please on a higher level, and have a more cumulative and subtle effect, and that's not enough to carry a book, I think.

Plus, from what I've read, I think it's easier to have voice and develop worldbuilding than the other way around.

[pjthompson]

I agree. I recently abandoned a highly touted book, although it had wonder aplenty. The voice was just too damned irritated. I couldn't stand hanging out with it.

[desperance.livejournal.com]

Also here from sartorias - but I might hang around, if that's okay...?

Two points: for me, it's voice every time (tho' I will still snarl at sloppy storytelling, however it manifests; even the sweetest voice may not be enough to keep me through fake characterisation or inconsistent narrative or a world I can't believe).

But. That's speaking as a reader and a writer. As a professional? Publishers know that the mass readership really doesn't care about voice; some of the biggest bestsellers (Meyer has already been cited; let me add Dan Brown) can't write for shit.

Publishers look for story, every time. Not world-building, I think you set up a false dichotomy there; it's plot that will get a book accepted. Everything else is secondary to a driving narrative.

[pjthompson]

but I might hang around, if that's okay...?

Of course. Welcome.

(tho' I will still snarl at sloppy storytelling, however it manifests; even the sweetest voice may not be enough to keep me through fake characterisation or inconsistent narrative or a world I can't believe)

These are the most frustrating books. "You had a good thing going but you didn't know what to do with it."

Publishers look for story, every time.

Actually, I agree. If you've got a really original or break out plot, your chances of publication go up dramatically. I think where voice becomes more important is when you're writing in a more well-trodden subgenre--urban fantasy, for instance. The plot elements don't seem to vary as much in these books (they get rearranged in endless permutations) so what seems (from my admittedly limited perspective) to make one of these rise above the others is voice.

Or maybe I've just heard one too many agent say, "What I'm really looking for is a fresh voice, a fresh way of telling stories..." It begins to look like a mantra. Then again, the tastes of agents differ just as they do amongst the readership, and some agents, like publishers, will always push story over voice. There isn't one right answer.